Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the past two weeks, it’s nearly impossible to turn on a TV without seeing Sam Nunberg’s face. Nunberg almost certainly broke a world record (if they actually kept records for this kind of thing) last week, taking part in six interviews in less than three hours. The night was highlighted by back-to-back interviews on MSNBC and CNN, concluding with CNN’s Erin Burnett candidly asking him if he was intoxicated, as she claimed to have noticed the scent of alcohol on his breath.
Nunberg, who is 36, has a law degree, yet thought it was a good idea to parade himself in front of an international audience last Monday night and tell the world that he would not comply with two subpoenas he received, courtesy of Robert Mueller and the Special Counsel. Nunberg was a member of the Trump campaign, and potentially a key witness as the Special Counsel investigates possible collusion between the campaign and the Kremlin.
Following his media blitz last Monday, I reached out to Nunberg on Tuesday, who frantically picked up his phone.
“I am trying to get things done, you can call me next week. I don’t have a relationship with you.. Stop calling me until next week,” Nunberg told me in an agitated, yet oddly apologetic voice.
Nunberg apparently had a change of heart and was in the middle of preparing emails for his visit to the Grand Jury on Friday.
In my mind, this conversation would be the last I’d hear from the former Trump campaign aide, but yesterday I decided I’d give him one final call to see if perhaps he was up to having a short conversation. I left a message to him on his voicemail and then at 11am I got an unexpected call; it was Sam Nunberg!
Nunberg was incredibly apologetic for what may have come off as him being rude to me in that initial call that I made to him last Tuesday. He then went out of his way to enlighten me as to how stressed out he really was.
“Sorry about last week man, I was just getting so many f*cking calls while I was doing the email stuff. You know what I’m saying?”
Here I am, just a normal guy doing a story about a key witness in the Mueller investigation and that witness, for some reason, felt as if he owed me something. I’ve never really had any interviewee act the way Nunberg did towards my questioning. It was almost as if I was talking to an old friend who stopped returning my calls, but decided to finally reconnect. While my conversation lasted nearly 30 minutes, most of the discussion was centered around his political views and thoughts about the Special Counsel and the current administration. With that said, there were a number of incredibly interesting tidbits of information that I was able to glean off of what otherwise would have emulated a conversation between two longtime friends. Here are some of the highlights.
A Senior Trump Campaign Official ‘stole’ from the campaign
One of the more shocking revelations from my conversation with Nunberg, which he did not mention to the mainstream media during his interview blitz last Monday, was the fact that a senior campaign official “lived off of his expense account and tried to do vendor deals and side deals” during the campaign. While Nunberg told me this individual’s name, who most Americans would likely recognize, he did so in confidence, therefore I will leave it at that. Clearly Nunberg has a personal vendetta, perhaps warranted against this person.
Is Trump Guilty?
Next I asked Nunberg his opinion on whether or not the President was guilty of a crime.
“There were some questionable activities that went on during the election. This investigation was warranted,” he explained.
Although he claims that he didn’t know anything that took place that was illegal, and while he was on the campaign he didn’t hear anything about coordination with Russia, he did admit that collusion was possible:
“I don’t think the President or Putin would coordinate on the emails, but what do I know? When you look at the people who have already plead guilty or are cooperating, something is going to come out. Whether it leads to the President, it does or it doesn’t.”
Nunberg then opened up, suggesting that if the Special Counsel does have something on Trump it won’t be anything minor.
“If they were to bring something against the President, it’s going to be pretty bad. I don’t think the President did do anything, but if [the Special Counsel] does think that he did something, it’s gonna be pretty bad.
Do you consider yourself a victim?
I asked Nunberg if he, at all, feels like he has been victimized by the President or the Special Counsel. His response was rather intriguing:
“Donald Trump gave me a lot of chances, and if it was up to President Trump and candidate Trump, I would have been on that campaign and I recognize that. He’s a good man. Sometimes I have ups and sometimes I have downs. I’m very close to him, and sometimes as an employer, in the future, you can’t think of people like that. I’m not a victim [of] the independent counsel, but I’ve been victimized because [there is] an independent counsel. So I’m victimized because somebody in the White House didn’t stop the President from having the God damn Russians visit the White House the week [Trump] fired Comey.
Robert Mueller and his team have a strong interest in what happened at Miss Universe Moscow in 2013
I pushed him hard for further information about what the Special Counsel seemed to be the most interested in. Although Roger Stone was clearly a focus, there were numerous other people and events which seemed to pique the interest of investigators during Nunberg’s Grand Jury testimony. Although he shied away from the question, he did share the following:
“It focused on a lot of things. I think they focused on any knowledge I had of Miss Universe. I can’t get into specifics.”
He then jumped into his concerns over his ‘mentor’ and former Trump adviser Roger Stone.
Roger Stone a target of the Mueller investigation
As we reported yesterday, Nunberg is clearly worried about his ‘mentor’ Roger Stone, and appears to believe that Stone is a “target” of the Special Counsel:
“I feel that Roger Stone is a target of this investigation, and I don’t think that I am leaking anything out, and I don’t think that the independent counsel would be upset by [me saying this]. I think it’s pretty obvious.”
“So what” if the President committed crimes prior to inauguration
I pressed Nunberg for his thoughts on whether he believed his former boss, Donald Trump, was headed towards impeachment or a future indictment. His take on things strayed wildly from most legal opinions I’ve read.
“If they find something, hypothetically, that he did in 2014, so what… so what! My opinion is that if you want to have the President of the United States face legal consequences for something he did outside that scope, you can do that once he’s out of office, not while he’s in office.”
Do you Blame the President?
I then asked him if he blamed the President at all for him having to go before the Grand Jury, compile thousands of emails between himself and campaign officials and deal with the associated legal fees.
“I don’t want to answer one way or the other. It doesn’t matter. What’s the difference? This is what I will say. Everything that happened between him and me is water under the bridge.”
There were only two people who spoke to Nunberg in the “entire country’
One of the more surprising, and I have to say depressing things that Nunberg shared with me, came when I asked him why he was so close to former Trump Chief Strategist, Steve Bannon.
“We became very close. First of all, I only had two or three people who would talk to me in the run-up to Trump running, who would even take me seriously. Two or three people in the entire country; Steve Bannon, Chris Ruddy and… I can’t even remember the third right now, so let’s just say two people.”
He then went on to explain that Bannon had many of the same ‘world views’ as he did, before quickly jumping over to other topics.
“Off the record”
At the start of the interview, I specifically told Nunberg that if he ever wanted to go ‘off the record’ with me and share information with me which I would not pass on via this article, he could do so with complete trust. Even though I’ve never met this man, and he likely doesn’t know me from Adam, he confided in me with several tidbits of information about specific individuals within the campaign. While I can not discuss some of the information he provided me, I was fascinated by the fact that Nunberg instantly trusted me with such sensitive material as if I was a lifelong friend, all while he is still a key witness in what may be the largest, most important investigation in American history.
Perhaps it was this unwarranted trust that Trump saw in the man, that influenced him to not only hire him once, but to hire him a second time during the campaign.